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Steve Jones

Steve Jones Business English
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Temat: Polish is an easy language:

There are 3 genders and 14 case endings for Polish nouns (that's 42 possible endings to put on a noun)

Adjectives change endings to agree with the noun and the endings are different from the noun. That's another 3 genders multiplied by 42.

42 multiplied by 42 is 1764.

1764 is the calculation you have to make to stick a noun with an adjective in Polish.

In English there are 3 possibilities. Same adjective plus either plural noun or Saxon genitive.

3

Compare 1764 with 3

Call me a wanker, but to me 3 seems easier than 1764
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Steve Jones

Steve Jones Business English
Trainer, Translator,
Proofreader

Temat: Polish is an easy language:

And another thing...

don't buy into the hype that Polish has got only 3 tenses: it hasn't!

robię
zrobię
będę robić/ robił
zrobiłem
robiłem
zrobiłbym, gdyby...

Looks like 6 to me.

Plus, bear in mind that I've only used the "ja" form.

What if you were to use "ty". Would it have the same ending as it would in English (in most cases)?

Nope!

Get your calculator out and work out all the possible endings!
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Temat: Polish is an easy language:

I think you've made your point, Steve.

I only wonder whether Jamie has ever made a serious attempt to get to grips with Polish?
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Polish is an easy language:

I admire people who can make use of their Math knowledge :)

Even the verb "to go" is a problem in Polish!
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Steve Jones

Steve Jones Business English
Trainer, Translator,
Proofreader

Temat: Polish is an easy language:

oh, and one more thing...

I think English has got one conjugation (plus some irregular verbs)

I think Polish has got:

ić
ać
eć
yć

plus some irregulars.

Get your calculators out for the lads! How many combinations have you come up with to use a Polish verb correctly?Steve Jones edytował(a) ten post dnia 10.06.08 o godzinie 02:15
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Temat: Polish is an easy language:

ilter Kalkanci:
I admire people who can make use of their Math knowledge :)

Even the verb "to go" is a problem in Polish!

In a polish grammar book in my posession, I once attempted to work out how many Polish words could be translated by the English words, 'go, goes, gone and went'.

Over a thousand, I believe.
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Temat: Polish is an easy language:

Well, after a year abroad I seem to have some problems with my dear native language... I often stop to think "ok, so how was it, can I make a structure like this?" Or I have to be careful while writing a surname like Rosiński, where s+i = s' , I often put ś and then have to correct it, duh...
I think Polish is difficult, but all we need is the time to learn it and still, there are some other challenging languages in the world left to have fun with! ;)

@Steve - niceee pic! ;) :)
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Temat: Polish is an easy language:

Kasia Pabianek:
Well, after a year abroad I seem to have some problems with my dear native language...

Really? I often wonder how long does it take to start losing it. I haven't used written Polish in probably about 14 years, I started visiting GL and posting in Polish... I have been corrected so many times already its embarrassing. I mean, even by native English speakers. I can definitely get my point across but it will definitely lack the proper grammar and orthography.
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Temat: Polish is an easy language:

Kasia Pabianek:
Well, after a year abroad I seem to have some problems with my dear native language...

A year? I have an uncle who's lived most of his life (and he's 73) in France and his Polish is still pretty intact, apart from being archaic. If it's so dear, why would you be losing it?
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Temat: Polish is an easy language:

I think that pronunciation as an indicator of difficulty should be forgotten. Yes I know that there are differences between ż, ź, etc. but on the whole it doesn't screw up the meaning if you get it wrong.
It is just a case of getting used to making shapes with your mouth that you aren't used to doing. After living in France for a bit I had no problem with 'r', though I'm losing it a bit now. Similarly someone who can't bend down and touch their toes would be able to do it after a bit of training.

The grammar is the issue for me, plus remembering which prefix to add to get the correct word. On a daily basis I see budować, odbudować, rozbudować, wybudować, przebudować, etc. (though mabye I'm making some of these up...). I'm not always sure which one to use.
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Temat: Polish is an easy language:

Steven H.:
I think that pronunciation as an indicator of difficulty should be forgotten. Yes I know that there are differences between ż, ź, etc. but on the whole it doesn't screw up the meaning if you get it wrong.
It is just a case of getting used to making shapes with your mouth that you aren't used to doing. After living in France for a bit I had no problem with 'r', though I'm losing it a bit now. Similarly someone who can't bend down and touch their toes would be able to do it after a bit of training.

I think I might disagree here. I was told if I worked hard enough, I'd be able to overcome my major problem with the Polish "r" and, once and for all, be able to say "ryba" instead of "zyba". Went to see a specialist, paid for several sessions, and nothing happened, even though I'd been doing the exercises for over half a year!
I know quite a few foreigners who speak near perfect Polish though, and it does depend on where they come from. Then again, the main purpose of speaking a foreign language is to get the message across, and as long as you're able to do that, what else do you need?
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Temat: Polish is an easy language:

I think I might disagree here. I was told if I worked hard enough, I'd be able to overcome my major problem with the Polish "r" and, once and for all, be able to say "ryba" instead of "zyba". Went to see a specialist, paid for several sessions, and nothing happened,

If you only had one leg you'd never be able to run, no matter how much effort you made.
In your case it must be a genetic thing that you physically can't make that shape with your mouth. People without this problem can and can adapt.
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Temat: Polish is an easy language:

At least I can make other shapes with my mouth ;) The thing is, I do know people with the same kind of "lazy R" who were successful at overcoming the problem. So either you're right or I'm plain lazy. I wouldn't be bothered with the German "r" either, so I try not to use my spoken German - but am able to read and write in it quite well.
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Polish is an easy language:

Steven H.:
I think that pronunciation as an indicator of difficulty should be forgotten.
You are right on that. But I didn't mean the otherwise. It is not an indicator, it is just one more additional difficulty when I try to perfect something.
Even Pascal ("po prostu gotuj") is understood with his "czy wjśki"s.

The grammar is the issue for me,
That's my most important problem too. But I chose another method of learning Polish (after all those years-which is late). That is remembering a whole sentence. That's almost easier (for me) than learning to build a sentence. So, I just try to copy everything a native used in context/case.
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Polish is an easy language:

Steven H.:
I think I might disagree here. I was told if I worked hard enough, I'd be able to overcome my major problem with the Polish "r" and, once and for all, be able to say "ryba" instead of "zyba". Went to see a specialist, paid for several sessions, and nothing happened,
...
In your case it must be a genetic thing that you physically can't make that shape with your mouth. People without this problem can and can adapt.
It is not genetic, but you're right with that "shape" thing.
If a person is raised in one of those southern states of US, his/her mouth will almost never get into proper shape to produce some specific sounds. Not because of genetics, but because of growth.
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Temat: Polish is an easy language:

Get off my mouth, will you?
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Polish is an easy language:

Do I smell bad?
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Temat: Polish is an easy language:

I believe that anything's possible (assuming that it really isn't a physical impossibility) if you really train.
Actors and actresses train to put on accents. If you really practise, perhaps with guidance on what specifically you should aiming to do, you can do a French 'r' for example. I don't think that I'm somehow talented in being able to do it.
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Temat: Polish is an easy language:

Steven H.:
I believe that anything's possible (assuming that it really isn't a physical impossibility) if you really train.
Actors and actresses train to put on accents. If you really practise, perhaps with guidance on what specifically you should aiming to do, you can do a French 'r' for example. I don't think that I'm somehow talented in being able to do it.

That's something I'm always telling Polish students.

The sounds of British and American English are quite different, yet British actors appear in American films with appropriate accents and vice versa.

Of course they have had special training.

If actors can manage it, so can everyone else.
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Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
Music Producer, AVID
Certified Instru...

Temat: Polish is an easy language:

Steven H.:
I believe that anything's possible (assuming that it really isn't a physical impossibility) if you really train.
Actors and actresses train to put on accents. If you really practise, perhaps with guidance on what specifically you should aiming to do, you can do a French 'r' for example. I don't think that I'm somehow talented in being able to do it.

I believe you are right, but having an accent coach is not convenient for all.ilter Kalkanci edytował(a) ten post dnia 10.06.08 o godzinie 10:02
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