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For non-native speakers of English:

How difficult do you find communicating with native speakers?

What causes you the biggest problem?

If you are fluent, how did you become so?

Do you have any 'tips' regarding achieving fluncy in English to others?

For natives:

What advice would you give to non-natives on how to become communicatively competent in English:

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warren whitmore:
For non-native speakers of English:

How difficult do you find communicating with native speakers?

It really depends on the level of understanding, but over all, communication is mainly about listening and understanding, so as long as there is patience and will, it shouldn't be that much of a challenge. I think overcoming personal shyness and embarrassment should be the main goal for anyone learning to speak. I can see how it could be intimidating for some people, trying to express yourself in best way possible and lacking words or sentence structure could definitely prove to be annoying, but that's an inevitable part of the learning process.

What causes you the biggest problem?

For me it was pronunciation. I was lucky thou, I met a very good kid and he made it his goal to pretty much teach me English and correct me every time. Sort of like a teacher with out credentials ;)

If you are fluent, how did you become so?

Interaction... there is absolutely nothing that can substitute interaction, exchange, debate, jokes, conversations and objective listening. Again, I have been living abroad and my options were either learn or become one of the handicapped (in a lingual sense of the word) who refuse to learn and stick with their own that was not my plan. Also, thinking in the language that you are trying to pick up...

Do you have any 'tips' regarding achieving fluncy in English to others?

Don't be shy, don't get intimidated, it does get extremely frustrating at times and no one will make fun of you (if they do, just hit 'em). From my own experience, living in the greater metro area of NYC, I come in contact with people of every nation and accents range from great to gibberish yet we all manage to communicate one way or another, nothing happens over night, as long as you are willing to deal with the fact that - yes, people will ask you to repeat yourself sometimes, so what? You are learning and people will definitely appreciate the fact that you are trying more so than if you won't.
Stay positive no matter what, I know that my own handle on English is fair and it needs much improvement, but the only way this will happen is if I practice and use it every chance I get. Sort of a reason for my verbal diarrhea on these here forums (which doesn't make me a bad person).

Actually let me give you an example.. I work with a lady from Jamaica, her accent is thick, I mean you could cut it with a knife, she gets on the phone and talks to clients from all over and when asked to repeat something she usually turns it into a joke.. its really not that big of a deal... communication is a very important thing, but the more fun you have with it, the easier it becomes. I think.Rafal Wolk edytował(a) ten post dnia 03.05.08 o godzinie 15:09

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It's very hard indeed to consider you as a 'non-native', Rafal.

I don't mean that your English is perfect, but rather that you use it unselfconsciously, as a native-speaker does.

Funnily enough, some of those who express embarrassment and shame about their English, are actually capable of writing at a similar level to yourself.

Objectively, they have little real problem in expressing themselves. However, they somehow manage to convince themseves that they 'can't'.

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warren whitmore:
It's very hard indeed to consider you as a 'non-native', Rafal.

I don't mean that your English is perfect, but rather that you use it unselfconsciously, as a native-speaker does.

True... but what you are looking at is pretty much 16 years of chiseling away. I made it my goal to learn and have a deep understanding of the English language, it sort of sucks because I did it at the expense of my Polish, which at one point was excellent. Anyway, point being is that .. well the title of this thread pretty much lays it out, you have to break through the intimidation factor in order to feel comfortable while communicating. I think that credentials of some of the natives (yourself included) could be intimidating and I'd be lying if I said that I am not paying extra attention to how i phrase my statements because of it (I think it's the teacher student syndrome) yet I do realize that, since you, Steve and Steve and "even" Keith (jokes jokes K-dawg) are true British native speakers, I can only learn from an open dialogue and quite frankly I've had already.

Funnily enough, some of those who express embarrassment and shame about their English, are actually capable of writing at a similar level to yourself.

Yes, what's even more funny is the fact that I find myself more intimidated by those people, simply because their handle on it is so great and whenever any of them speak out, it is usually near perfect, where I know that I let things slide rather often.
Thing is, we are not getting graded on this just having a chit chat.

Objectively, they have little real problem in expressing themselves. However, they somehow manage to convince themseves that they 'can't'.

It just brings me back to the whole teacher - student relationship that a lot of people bring with them when speaking to a native. Which could cause an issue, because we are supposed to respect teachers, yet if we don't agree with their opinions in the classroom environment, we tend to stay quite... but this is not a classroom environment.

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How difficult do you find communicating with native speakers?

I completely agree with Rafal: it's all down to interaction, communication, hanging out with the natives. If you don't, unless you are a linguistic genius, you will remain linguistically handicapped. It is difficult at first, especially for those aware that their English, or any other language for that matter, is far from perfect.

What causes you the biggest problem?

Tuning into various accents, especially the UK ones, but it's only a matter of time you are exposed to a given accent. I am "tainted" with sort of a fake north US accent and I tune into most of the American ones quite easily. It's not the case for the UK accents for me, though.

I used to struggle to understand the Dublin Irish - at first it sounded to me like an uninterrupted stream of sounds (howayamate).

Only recently I had an occasion to spend some time working with a Scotsman from Dundee. Again it took me a couple of days to learn to filter out all the R's and the aye's, or arye's in the end of almost every sentence.

If you are fluent, how did you become so?

I consider myself as fluent as someone who has never lived in (or even been to), an English speaking country can be. Like Rafal I wanted to learn the language and I did so by listening (music, movies, radio). The very fist I ever spoke to a native English speaker (from Wisconsin, US) was after about 8-9 years of "study". Not the best possible approach, but that was really the first opportunity that came around.

Do you have any 'tips' regarding achieving fluncy in English to others?

Expose yourself to the language you want to learn, listen and repeat, then start speaking.

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Jarek Adamowski:

I consider myself as fluent as someone who has never lived in (or even been to), an English speaking country can be.

I'd agree.

As with Rafal, when communicating with you, I don't get the feeling that I'm interacting with a 'non-native' at all.

I don't believe that I have to 'dumb-down' my English in any way, and I also have the impression that if I make a joke, you'll 'get' that I'm joking.

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warren whitmore:

Jarek Adamowski:
I consider myself as fluent as someone who has never lived in (or even been to), an English speaking country can be.

I'd agree.

As with Rafal, when communicating with you, I don't get the feeling that I'm interacting with a 'non-native' at all.

This means I'm on the right track.

I don't believe that I have to 'dumb-down' my English in any way,

Neither do I ;)

and I also have the impression that if I make a joke, you'll 'get' that I'm joking.

Yep, I think I get all your jokes. Occasionally I may not catch some of the references to British TV shows or movies, but that would be it.Jarek Adamowski edytował(a) ten post dnia 03.05.08 o godzinie 16:50

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Jarek Adamowski:

I don't believe that I have to 'dumb-down' my English in any way,

Neither do I ;)

Sorry if I sounded patronising.

I'm both amazed and impressed that you have reached your level of English without ever having resided in an English-speaking country.

I find it a little ironic that you can fully interact on equal terms with native-speakers of English, whereas some who have studied English philology for five years find themselves unable or unwilling to do so.

(I presume English was not your degree subject).warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 03.05.08 o godzinie 17:02

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warren whitmore:

Jarek Adamowski:

I don't believe that I have to 'dumb-down' my English in any way,

Neither do I ;)

Sorry if I sounded patronising.

No you didn't. I was referring to your favorite Guardian "journalist" Aleksandra-I-can't-remember-her-full-name... ;)

I'm both amazed and impressed that you have reached your level of English without ever having resided in an English-speaking country.

I find it a little ironic that you can fully interact on equal terms with native-speakers of English, whereas some who have studied English philology for five years find themselves unable or unwilling to do so.

(I presume English was not your degree subject).

Nope, I've never studied English. I'm 100% self taught.

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For natives:

What advice would you give to non-natives on how to become communicatively competent in English:

Don't be afraid to speak! Most natives will not poke fun at your desire to learn no matter how suspcious you are! If you want to be corrected while having a discussion, ask for it. We will be happy to help. Don't be too proud to make mistakes because if you don't make them, you will not learn.

On the flip side, however.. I am a complete newbie to Polish. I have barely begun my Pimelseur audio lessons. I have been married to a Pole for nearly ten years and have picked up some basics, but whenever I tried to speak out what I've learned I would get a smirk, a hearty laugh, or a WHAT??. Even now I will get a condesending, "OH that's goooood, hahaha". My hubby is helping and he's always supportive, but what advice is there for me? An American trying to learn Polish in the States where most of my efforts outside the home are a joke. I might add that about half of the Poles I know in town do not speak English and those that do prefer Polish. They speak so fast and with so much slang, that I can barely follow where the words begin and end. Sure, I am excusing myself a bit, but some sound advice would be helpful.

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Jarek Adamowski:

> > (I presume English was not your degree subject).

Nope, I've never studied English. I'm 100% self taught.

That is amazing, Jarek, really.

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Kari Wolk:

For natives:

What advice would you give to non-natives on how to become communicatively competent in English:

Don't be afraid to speak! Most natives will not poke fun at your desire to learn no matter how suspcious you are! If you want to be corrected while having a discussion, ask for it. We will be happy to help. Don't be too proud to make mistakes because if you don't make them, you will not learn.

On the flip side, however.. I am a complete newbie to Polish. I have barely begun my Pimelseur audio lessons. I have been married to a Pole for nearly ten years and have picked up some basics, but whenever I tried to speak out what I've learned I would get a smirk, a hearty laugh, or a WHAT??. Even now I will get a condesending, "OH that's goooood, hahaha". My hubby is helping and he's always supportive, but what advice is there for me? An American trying to learn Polish in the States where most of my efforts outside the home are a joke. I might add that about half of the Poles I know in town do not speak English and those that do prefer Polish. They speak so fast and with so much slang, that I can barely follow where the words begin and end. Sure, I am excusing myself a bit, but some sound advice would be helpful.

The answer to that one is obvious:

Physician heal thyself.

Just apply your own advice concerning learning English to Polish.

One other point.

A lot will depend on Rafal.

My wife doesn't speak to me in Polish, although I've begged her to. Therefore my Polish is crap.

I used to have a Welsh speaking girlfriend who refused to speak to me in English. My Welsh is (actually was as I never use it) pretty fluent, which is pretty unusual for an Englishman.

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warren whitmore:

>

The answer to that one is obvious:

Physician heal thyself.

Just apply your own advice concerning learning English to Polish.

One other point.

A lot will depend on Rafal.

My wife doesn't speak to me in Polish, although I've begged her to. Therefore my Polish is crap.

I used to have a Welsh speaking girlfriend who refused to speak to me in English. My Welsh is (actually was as I never use it) pretty fluent, which is pretty unusual for an Englishman.

Ah-ha!! It's a conspiracy I tell you! I have been trying to get Ralf to speak to my daughter in Polish from the moment she was born and he just refuses. Rediculous! Now that we are moving it doesn't matter so much, but why is it that they refuse to speak Polish to us? I have a feeling there is some subconscious issue concerning "the right" or "the priviledge" to speak Polish that we have yet to discover!!!

Can anyone give us a little insight on the subjsct?

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Kari Wolk:
Ah-ha!! It's a conspiracy I tell you! I have been trying to get Ralf to speak to my daughter in Polish from the moment she was born and he just refuses. Rediculous! Now that we are moving it doesn't matter so much, but why is it that they refuse to speak Polish to us? I have a feeling there is some subconscious issue concerning "the right" or "the priviledge" to speak Polish that we have yet to discover!!!

Can anyone give us a little insight on the subject?

My wife talks to our kid in Polish, even in England.

I used to get told off by her and my parents for speaking to her in Polish (obviously as she didn't understand English).

I then made a deal with my wife that she would speak to me in Polish if I would speak to our daughter in English, but she never kept to her side of the bargain.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 03.05.08 o godzinie 19:58

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What makes me difficult in english? Writing and thinking of all that grammar rules, and worrying if I made a mistake (especially here :D). I know I make them, but - hey, nobody's perfect ;)

A weird thing is that when I speak in english, right words just come to me. Unfortunately, I don't have too many opportunities to do so lately.

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Kari Wolk:

warren whitmore:

>

The answer to that one is obvious:

Physician heal thyself.

Just apply your own advice concerning learning English to Polish.

One other point.

A lot will depend on Rafal.

My wife doesn't speak to me in Polish, although I've begged her to. Therefore my Polish is crap.

I used to have a Welsh speaking girlfriend who refused to speak to me in English. My Welsh is (actually was as I never use it) pretty fluent, which is pretty unusual for an Englishman.

Ah-ha!! It's a conspiracy I tell you! I have been trying to get Ralf to speak to my daughter in Polish from the moment she was born and he just refuses. Rediculous! Now that we are moving it doesn't matter so much, but why is it that they refuse to speak Polish to us? I have a feeling there is some subconscious issue concerning "the right" or "the priviledge" to speak Polish that we have yet to discover!!!

Can anyone give us a little insight on the subjsct?

To be honest I don't understand it. I always speak Polish to my English mates if only they ask for it. To some extend I think it's fun.

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For natives:

What advice would you give to non-natives on how to become communicatively competent in English:

Have a go, sod the mistakes.

Like the language.

Be curious - read stuff and check out the vocab

Check out authentic sources - songs are an obvious starting point - and be curious about what the song means. Get into the comedy and the culture.

Do what you can - develop a strategy that fits your schedule. For example, you commute a lot? Turn the dead car time into learning time by listening to English in the car.

Use the 3 card technique. Fill up 3 pocket-sized cards with phrases you've come across recently along with Polish prompts. Carry them with you at all times. Test yourself when you have a spare 5 minutes. When you've remembered everything on a card, throw it in the bin and fill out a new one. You can get around 20 phrases on a card. Throwing a card in the bin means you've learned 20 phrases and you can move onto the next ones - this is motivating!

Know why you're learning the language - set yourself goals and reasons for achieving them. Make them specific. Set deadlines.

Avoid all temptation to tell yourself useless things like "it's difficult" or "I haven't got time"

Tell yourself more useful things instead such as "it's easy because (in the case of English there are no case endings) or (in the case of Polish the spelling is phonetic) and "I've got a spare 5 minutes - I'll whip out my 3 cards"

Stick with it.Steve Jones edytował(a) ten post dnia 04.05.08 o godzinie 00:51

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How difficult do you find communicating with native speakers?

Not that difficult anymore, though it took me ages to get used to accents other than BBC English. When I started going out with my first English b'friend and we phoned each other, I'd do most of the talking for fear of making a fool of myself, as he always had to repeat everything he said to me at least twice. Otherwise I'd say dumbfully say 'yeah' without having a clue what the hell he was on about. These conversations were very stressful for me ;)) It was easier when we met face to face, as at least I could read his lips ;)

I still find it difficult with some other accents (like Nigerian, and some of the US for example), Scottish used to be quite hard to understand until they started hiring Scottish narrators for the UK TV programmes.

What causes you the biggest problem?

Regarding grammar, I once had a problem with indirect questions and as a result became very self-conscious when I spoke. Slips of the tongue can be really annoying when you happen to be a bit of a perfectionist like myself, as most of the time you're aware of them, but it's always too late to correct yourself. After a while, you press yourself to speak correctly and every time you do, the opposite happens. So I agree with Steve that one should sod the mistakes, and I bear it in mind every time I correct my students' wrong pronunciation of 'answer' Pavlov-fashion.

If you are fluent, how did you become so?

Probably by getting drunk so often that I no longer cared about the mistakes I made ;) But seriously, I noticed that when you persevere with speaking English for long enough, you'll find that you've crossed an invisible line after which using the language is virtually effortless. You probably won't notice the moment of crossing this line, but to realise you've done it is a pretty euphoric experience. It's not only true of learning foreign languages, I had the same experience when practising piano and percussion.

Do you have any 'tips' regarding achieving fluncy in English to others?

I think Steve has outlined it very accurately. A certain amount of structured, drill-type exercises is necessary, but ultimately, it's liking the language that will allow you to use it creatively. Curiosity and perseverance are key. And it pays to make friends with a native speaker - they're like walking 3D dictionaries ;D (sorry, of course I didn't mean to reduce you to such, you're human beings with feelings ;))

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My contribution to this thread will be rather small as I agree with all the above. English studies are perfect for non-natives learning a language in their own countries. Having more than 30 hrs of English/a week and being surrounded by English texts, sounds, etc. make you "exist in" the language especially if some of your teachers are natives. And this "second existence" is the only way to "cross the line" - the line which Sylwia mentions. The first sign you are near crossing "the line" is when you start dreaming in English and suddenly catch yourself thinking in English while making plans or just trying to figure out how to cook dinner :)

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warren whitmore:
For non-native speakers of English:

How difficult do you find communicating with native speakers?

On a linguistic level - fairly easy, both in English and Spanish. Personal level - same as with any other people.

What causes you the biggest problem?

Accents, especially with Spanish - I like talking to people from Castilla y Leon or the Madrilenos, but have difficulty adjusting to the southern accents (i.e. Andalusian).
Slang, especially when I listen to very young people talking about music and/or sports.

If you are fluent, how did you become so?

By using English/Spanish on a daily basis: work, home, etc.
I'm not so sure about my French being very fluent, but I learned to speak French and German while living with my great-grandmother and aunt who, when wanted to share a secret, spoke those two languages. Well, curiosity was the best teacher.

Do you have any 'tips' regarding achieving fluncy in English to others?

Other than "if you don't use it, you lose it"? No.