Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

http://www.conservapedia.com/Extremist

For instance, how does one become a Nazi?

From what I understand, most Nazis are as well Catholic Christians, have strong believes in family and nation. I comprehend it as to that, that the believe in God and the bible, makes it easy to believe into The Fuehrer and Mein Kampf, as it offers itself as an obvious and modern allegory.

Nonetheless the question stands out, why one does become a Nazi nowadays? How weak does one have to be, how inferiour his feelings, how much lacking of character and a purpose in life? As so many studies proved, it's not related to high or low education (as well as we know that the mojority of high ranking Nazis were highly educated and intelligent people).

Why does a German nowadays suddenly feels the urge to enslave Slavs; thinks he's superiour to others; thinks Jews bring down evil onto mankind? Why does uncertainty lead to hate and despise?

Any suggestions?
Why are people so intrigued by it?

PS: And please don't play the nationality/sterotype card! ;)

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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

George Orwell remarked that the Nazis, or some similar organisation, could never come to power in Britain, because people would laugh at them.

There may well be some truth in this observation.
Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Certainly they are laughable and that's why I personally would prefer Germans to laugh at or completely ignore the, btw. legal, demonstrations of the German Nationalist Party, instead organizing an anti-demonstration and giving them a big media echo.
And laughing or not, you'll certainly find Nazi bloaks in Britain nowadays, as well as there were Nazi supporters back in the days before WWII.

But that's not the question here.

PS: Brigitte Hamann, one of the most profound experts on the topic, pointed out, that, given similar circumstances, such an occurrence could arise in any society/nation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigitte_Hamann

PPS: There is hardly any country where you won't find hardcore Nazis, Nazi-parties, etc. (including Israel, ironically).

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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

There are Nazis in every country, including Israel.

In the 1930s there was a party in the U.K. called the British Union of Fascists, headed by Oswald Mosely, Max Mosely's father.

However, this party never achieved power, and never came close to doing so. The question has to be why a set of views that are espoused by an extremist minority in one country, become the mainstream views of the majority in another.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 04.10.09 o godzinie 15:10
Rafał Wołk

Rafał Wołk I'm not arrogant,
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

http://www.americannaziparty.com/

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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Let's see at post-Copernicus ages when people still thought Sun was moving around the Earth. How was possible to convince those who were killing "heretics"? Not by discussing with them. By laughing at theirs' views.
And I think that Nazis are similar to above mentioned narrow-minded people. And therefore there is no goal in discussing with them about categorizing people into "Übermenschen" or "Untermenschen". Especially with Jewish Nazis. Only laugh is an efficient weapon against them.
Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

As much as I like laughing at them (what I just recently had to do), I don't see how this changes things.
I find it rather peculiar how a grown up person can fall for such a neanderthalic view, especially while living in Poland.

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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Copernicus' theory was a danger for many persons' outlook. It means that they were afraid of destroy "natural order of things", of destroy the God's order. And that's why it was a heresy.
Nazism in turn is interesting for many persons because of many of it's "advantages" for it's followers. What "advantages"?
1) Jews are hated all over the world so "cleaning" them out seems a restoring an order,
2) "Dirty people" like black men, Arab people or Gypsy are a "dirt" of the world. If so, then "cleansing" of them is only option for the sake of purity of the world,
3) Many people think that someone like Hitler is necessary for keeping the order. In what ways? For example:
a) for keeping low unemployment rate,
b) for much faster conveying necessary changes in politics or in economy that it's possible for slow democracy,
c) for removing problems with minorities,
d) for keeping stability of living conditions (no frequent government changes, social welfare, etc).

Let's question an average Mr Nobody from Poland, Germany, France, the UK, the US, etc. if he'd like to see problems 3a,b,c,d easily solved. I'm convinced that most of them would say "yes". And unfortunately, many of them would say "yes" to solving problems 1) and 2) (because they think that problems from the point 3) are caused by "aliens" - Jews or "dirty people").

And that's why simple laughing at these people's convictions is not an option. Problem of unemployment or with aggressive minority (vide uprises of Muslims in the UK or in France) is not just a matter of bad perception. These are real problems. And these problems make some stupid people convinced to ideas of Nazism. When we laugh at them, they think we laugh at theirs' real problems. And that's why I think we should solve real problems and then laugh at fools' convictions by showing _everyone_ the absurdity of it. Like enlightened people did that in XVIII-th century.
Paweł G.

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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

That's why, Bernd:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CjpCSxyakk

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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Let me arrogantly answer with a question.

How does that make you feel Bernd?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU
Feeling Holocausty ? Because that's what I think will happen unless Islam becomes liberal and does what Christianity did by creating the New Testament (clearing the shit out e.g. stuff degrading to women etc.)Michał K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 04.10.09 o godzinie 22:33

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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

It makes me feel that the person posting it is a bit, how can I put it politely, 'cerebrally challenged'.

The statistics used in the video are absolute nonsense, and the video has been debunked a number of times.

It's the kind of thing Sylwia (Slapper) gets excited about.
Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Paweł Gąsior:
That's why, Bernd:
>

How about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymLJz3N8ayI

It is certainly an issue. Musician may have their views and explanations for it. I like this one particularly because lyrics and music go well together (pay attention to the implementation of Arabic sounds!)

@Michal: How I feel? Well, it keeps the flow for my craved Kebab-fix steady. At least. I wouldn't know how one feels holocausty.
Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
teacher, with a
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h...

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Spiegel just published a story about one Peter Petersen, one of the most distinguished pedagogues of the 20th century. He turned out to be a hardcore race-ideologist. Ups.
Problem now has it, that many schools bear his name.

Spiegel claims fi. under the 2000 schools in Saxonia there are eight with the names of former NSDAP members, three with SA members names, one with a SS member name. That's almost 13!! That's 0,7% of all schools with Nazi names. OMG!
Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Michał K.:
Let me arrogantly answer with a question.
How does that make you feel Bernd?
[the video here]
Feeling Holocausty ?
What do you mean... this makes you sick and feel like joining the extremist side, mass-killing the Muslims?
Because that's what the thread about.
"Extremist" being the keyword.

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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

What I'm saying is that history likes to repeat itself (unfortunately) and the reason why Hitler was in power is because people believed anti-jewish propaganda and followed him, and agreed on the camps/mass murders/war aso.

I hope Islam becomes more liberal and stops the mullah's preaching about killing the kuffar, all the jihad shit, treating women like dogs, allowing rape and honor killings - generally all the sharia bullshit.

Warren, what scares me is that regardless of how accurate this video is, an increase of non-liberal islam believers in Europe will allow for what happened in Iran in the 80's - switching from a pro-democratic country, to an islamic state and applying sharia law on women. There may be a lot of anti-islamic propaganda in the media, but you can't deny the terrorist literature in their UK libraries, the DVD's sold with preachings straight from Saudi Arabia, the live feeds from SA into UK Mosques, sharia being above UK law, the honor killings and all the shit aimed at women. Religion of love and peace? yeah right.

Bear in mind, I have a lot of muslim friends and they are all great people - that's because they are living and enjoying the western style of life.

One might say that christianity has done a lot of bad stuff like the crusades, yes I admit that, but it was 400 years ago, and since then it reformed significantly and keeps reforming to make itself fit with peoples way of thinking, not the other way around.

If a government told me that I have to make my wife cover her face on the street in 40 degree heat, I would rebel.
Who wouldn't ? That's a question you need to answer yourself whilst taking a long hard look on that religion.Michał K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 05.10.09 o godzinie 11:48
Ilter K.

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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Michał K.:
What I'm saying is that history likes to repeat itself (unfortunately) and the reason why Hitler was in power is because people believed anti-jewish propaganda and followed him, and agreed on the camps/mass murders/war aso.
I don't think the people of Germany in 1939 mean/wanted to erase the Jews from the face of the Earth.

But that's not the thing.

I've had an impression, you posted this video up in here to justify the reasons of being an extremist.

Because...

1- "How does that make you feel Bernd?" (while knowing that Bernd being German and Muslim Turks living in Germany)
2- Posting a complete race/religion propaganda video in here
3- and asking "Feeling Holocausty ?"

... doesn't make me think you've meant: "history likes to repeat itself (unfortunately)"

Either you're trying to hide your real thoughts, or you are not able to explain yourself properly.

So, the population of Muslims worries you. I got it. From your SECOND message.

But what's the deal in here... "Inevitable holocaust"? Are you worried that the Muslims living nearby will butcher you or what?

We KNOW what does it mean to be a religious fundamentalist.
I want to know what's your take.ilter K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 05.10.09 o godzinie 12:03
Ilter K.

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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Michał K.:
[...] Bear in mind, I have a lot of muslim friends and they are all great people
That's a relief (!). I've just had a thought you want to kill some muslims (!).
[...] - that's because they are living and enjoying the western style of life.
And that's an arrogant bullshit, yes.
No, dude, it's not because they are living and enjoying the western style of life.

You're not a great person because you live in Poland, Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan.

It doesn't work that way.

Are you kidding me?

What the frak is "western style of life"???ilter K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 05.10.09 o godzinie 12:19
Bernd Schreckenberg

Bernd Schreckenberg I am an experienced
teacher, with a
diverse background,
h...

Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Michał K.:
What I'm saying is that history likes to repeat itself (unfortunately) and the reason why Hitler was in power is because people believed anti-jewish propaganda and followed him, and agreed on the camps/mass murders/war aso.

Not true, btw.
I hope Islam becomes more liberal and stops the mullah's preaching about killing the kuffar, all the jihad shit, treating women like dogs, allowing rape and honor killings - generally all the sharia bullshit.

Nonetheless they are quite honorable people, as you might be able to confirm from your experiences with your friends. Neither are all Arabs Sharia-mongers, as were all Germans Nazis.
Warren, what scares me is that regardless of how accurate this video is, an increase of non-liberal islam believers in Europe will allow for what happened in Iran in the 80's - switching from a pro-democratic country, to an islamic state and applying sharia law on women.

You think the CIA will help them in Europe?
There may be a lot of anti-islamic propaganda in the media, but you can't deny the terrorist literature in their UK libraries, the DVD's sold with preachings straight from Saudi Arabia, the live feeds from SA into UK Mosques, sharia being above UK law, the honor killings and all the shit aimed at women. Religion of love and peace? yeah right.

What about 'Wachturm'? What about the Radio Maryja? Some of the callers there seem not too friendly biased towards Gays and Arabs and Jews? What about the extremist pro-life Christians in the USA who block med-clinics?
Bear in mind, I have a lot of muslim friends and they are all great people - that's because they are living and enjoying the western style of life.

Must be the only one to enjoy, eh? ;)
One might say that christianity has done a lot of bad stuff like the crusades, yes I admit that, but it was 400 years ago, and since then it reformed significantly and keeps reforming to make itself fit with peoples way of thinking, not the other way around.

One might say that. Yes. About the reforms, I mean. Still a bunch of cynical pedophiles who talk about Africa and how their tribal mind-set apprehends them from the savvy Western life-style, while forbidding them the use of condoms, since a strong faith is all you need against Aids. That's some extremist propaganda in my book.
If a government told me that I have to make my wife cover her face on the street in 40 degree heat, I would rebel.
Who wouldn't ?

I know a couple of people who wouldn't...
That's a question you need to answer yourself whilst taking a long hard look on that religion.

Or any other...
Ilter K.

Ilter K. Business Developer,
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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Bernd Schreckenberg:
Michał K.:
Warren, what scares me is that regardless of how accurate this video is, an increase of non-liberal islam believers in Europe will allow for what happened in Iran in the 80's - switching from a pro-democratic country, to an islamic state and applying sharia law on women.

You think the CIA will help them in Europe?
:))) lolz

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Temat: Why does one become prone to extremist views?

Hitler believed in Eugenics and the arian race. One of the goals of the war was to "relieve" europe of jews (hence them being moved to where Palestine used to be and starting a 35 year old occupation, but that's another discussion).

The "Holocaust" question to Bernd and him being German is a coincidence. I am not one for being politically correct and "careful not to...". If a person is black, I call them black - not because I'm racist, but because they have a black skin color and it's quick to describe. So with that logic in mind, I asked Bernd, like I did everyone else in this thread, "does anyone feel holocausty". What I meant by that is, does such propaganda incite feelings that lead a person to extremism.

If you're asking whether I'm an extremist - no, I'm not.
I'm a center-left secular atheist, who was lucky enough to be born in a liberal faith that doesn't kill a person for converting or not practising the religion which I was indoctrinated into from young age.

I am not affraid that "Muslims living nearby will butcher" me, but I am reluctant to allow a coup and sharia into a western country. That can be easily achieved once enough muslims enter the government and take advantage of our democratic governing process and finally doing what was done in Iran in 1979.
Ask the women of Tehran if they are happy to wear burkhas after living without them before the revolution. See what's being going on on the streets of Iran for the past few months.
That's what I don't want to happen and that's why I will defend the country I live in from ever happening.

Why there was widespread consent in Europe for moving/killing jews?
Jealousy. Some Jews were successful and held "visible" positions in Austria and Germany in the 1920s and 1930s. In the Great Depression. Germany was hit the hardest by the worldwide economic depression, and successful Jews were envied.
Some Germans believed that "Jewish bankers" were responsible for the Treaty of Versailles.
Jews became a scapegoat for Germany's economic problems.
The Nazis had a vision of an Aryan German race that did not include Jews and many other groups of people.
Some say Hitler and the Nazis were opportunistic demagogues. Inciting hatred of the Jews was the means to an end. The Nazis used hatred of the Jews to unify the German people and create a new German empire. Nothing unites a people more than when they believe they are constantly under attack and fighting a common enemy. The Jews were convenient enemies. After propagating this idea of Jews being the scum of the earth so passionately, Hitler and the Nazis may have deluded themselves into believing it. (this tactic is currently being used against islamic people to portray all of them as terrorists).
In the 1930s there was a lot of anti-Jewish feeling and resentment in the Western world. Many Jews who tried to escape the persecution in Germany were refused entry into the US and other European countries and also many countries further afield.
Antisemitism has been rife throughout European history, largely because the Jews were a distinct, identifiable group, who did not integrate.
Hitler blamed Germany's defeat in WWI on the Jews, and he hated them. When he took power he started rounding them up. He did the same when he started taking over other countries. He used the Jews, Poles, gays, gypsies, Russians and mentally challenged people as slave labor and then started to annihilate them in gas chambers. His reason - hatred. He classed the above mentioned people as sub human and basically in his Nazi world there was no place for the "sub human", only the Aryan (blonde hair blue eyed Germans)
To understand the Holocaust you have to understand the Darwinian biology of the time. There was a growing sense, particularly since Ernst Haeckel, that there were those in society who were 'biologically' inferior and that for a 'fit' world to survive and thrive, those who were 'unfit' should be done away with. Instead of letting nature take its course, there was a unspoken sense that humans could take matters into their own hands. I am obviously not supporting this twisted logic, but that is a key to understanding how a number of things converged to create the nightmare of the century.

This should be enough for the muslim community to review their holy book (like the christians did with the new testament), stop the honor killings, the jihadist movement, remove extremist material from mosques and stomp out any desert dogma out of the religion (I have the same view on all other religions so don't feel pointed out).Michał K. edytował(a) ten post dnia 05.10.09 o godzinie 13:03

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