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Alicja Efejska

Alicja Efejska Lektor, PEN

Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

There's a debate in US Congress right now whether to bailout three main US auto makers: GM, Ford and Chrysler in order to save them from going bankrupt. Some senators argue that injecting large sums of money into businesses which fail to stay competetive is just waste of money.
The others say that if the three are allowed to go bankrupt, it might further destabilise the US and also world economy.
Who is right? What's your view?
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Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

I buy General Motors things because of family ties, but I bought a Ford in the summer. Here's how desperate they are: Today in my ground mail is a letter. It tells me that if I buy a 2008 Ford pick up truck, they'll give me a 2009 Focus for free.

If those automakers get the bailout they want, and I doubt they will, the average autoworker will not benefit, i.e., keep jobs, etc. I also believe that the UAW and the management deserve each other.

EDIT: the UAW is the United Auto Workers' union.
EDIT: these manufacturers pay an unbelievable amount of money in retriree pensions and health care benefits.Joj Y. edytował(a) ten post dnia 19.11.08 o godzinie 03:08
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Alicja Efejska

Alicja Efejska Lektor, PEN

Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

Joj Y.:
I buy General Motors things because of family ties, but I bought a Ford in the summer. Here's how desperate they are: Today in my ground mail is a letter. It tells me that if I buy a 2008 Ford pick up truck, they'll give me a 2009 Focus for free.

Let's make a deal here! You get this Ford and cede this free Focus to me.:) A deal?
But seriously,they say they ARE very desperate and I just wonder if they could keep their promise. Especially that it's not the first time they are introuble.
If those automakers get the bailout they want, and I doubt they will, the average autoworker will not benefit, i.e., keep jobs, etc. I also believe that the UAW and the management deserve each other.

But if they do go bankrupt, will it mean another, even deeper financial crisis?
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Andy Woy

Andy Woy doradca

Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

They are doomed, market is oversaturated.
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Alicja Efejska

Alicja Efejska Lektor, PEN

Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

Andy Woy:
They are doomed, market is oversaturated.

Yes, but don't you agree they should be given the help they ask for?
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Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

It's not a socialist country, so my humble answer is 'nicht, nicht'.

I believe in laissez-faire. There are many foreign manufacturers that have factories in the US - they pay taxes and employ US workers, which makes them American anyway. Ford and GM can go, just to be replaced by more competitive enterprises. Even Porsche is contemplating moving a part of their production to the US.

Saying that a mismanaged business "deserves" government help is plain communism. We remember the "bo się należy" approach all too well.
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Alicja Efejska

Alicja Efejska Lektor, PEN

Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

Adam L.:

Saying that a mismanaged business "deserves" government help is plain communism. We remember the "bo się należy" approach all too well.

Well, it's not commumism at all, it's more than that and these guys are playing their cards hard. I'm sure you are able to see the first results of the financial crisis even here, in Poland and there's more to come! :(
Do you remember the sub-prime mortgage crisis, which started the domino effect? And on top of that the financial giant AIG, that was severly hit by it? If the government didn't help them survive we could now see more serious effects here.
I'm afraid the problem is that letting these companies disappear will mean again a lot of trouble world-wide.:(
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Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

I would appreciate the effects of the collapse you fear. :) Ford would get rid of its stake in Volvo and Mazda, GM would set Saab free, and so on.

It's not electricity, it's not oil, it's not banking. Let them collapse and in a couple of months they'll be churning out Subaru, Honda or Hyundai vehicles. No harm done, except for hurt American pride. I love muscle cars, so in a sentimental sense, I would shed a tear, but that would be it.

If you're worried by the impact on Poland, you should campaign for a rescue plan for Polish shipyards, which for some reason seem to belong to a different category that - say - Volkswagen.

Justice for all.
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Alicja Efejska

Alicja Efejska Lektor, PEN

Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

Adam L.:

If you're worried by the impact on Poland, you should campaign for a rescue plan for Polish shipyards, which for some reason seem to belong to a different category that - say - Volkswagen.

Justice for all.

Right, but Polish shipyards don't pose the same global threat, it's just a local thing.
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Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

A couple of years ago American regulators wanted to... divide Microsoft into two separate companies. Maybe it's the time to revive the idea and deal with those sprawling conglomerates. :-p :)

Banking is different, we all have to use banks.

Cars? No matter how much money you pump money into Ford, you won't make people buy cars. In this manner you will only escalate the crisis, so that's why I call it typical communism.

My solution: instead of pumping the taxpayer's money into someone's ailing enterprise, return the money to the taxpayer, who will in turn buy a nice shiny Ford and thus rescue the company. If he buys - let's say - a nice little Subaru instead, he will facilitate the takeover of the ailing company by a more aptly managed one.

No need for a fookin' Janosik or Che Guevara here.

Attitudes change. 1986 saw nationalist riots in front of Toyota dealerships, but now US politicians urge the people to "drive the patriotic Prius".

Of course I'm joking, but I hope you follow my reasoning. Time to bed.Adam L. edytował(a) ten post dnia 18.11.08 o godzinie 23:59
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Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

There are other reasons why people in the states choose foreign cars over domestic - gas millage as well as the cost of upkeep and last but not least - durability.
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Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

Rafal W.:
There are other reasons why people in the states choose foreign cars over domestic - gas millage as well as the cost of upkeep and last but not least - durability.
amen.
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Alicja Efejska

Alicja Efejska Lektor, PEN

Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

The three CEOs of those nearly bankrupt companies came to Washington by.... their private jets. :) Corporate America will never give up!
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Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

Alicja Efejska:
The three CEOs of those nearly bankrupt companies came to Washington by.... their private jets. :)

How utterly stupid of them.
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Alicja Efejska

Alicja Efejska Lektor, PEN

Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

They also talked about Michigan and said that if these companies are allowed to collapse the state will be shattered. :(
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Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

Too late :)
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Alicja Efejska

Alicja Efejska Lektor, PEN

Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

Joj Y.:
Too late :)

Joy, aren't you worried? Toyota is also planning to stop their production of cars in US.
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Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

I dont worry about my own circumstances, but it's easy to see the indirect effects in the local economies. The unemployment rate in Michigan is currently 9.3%, and that will be the highest in the country for three years straight. You lose the tax base and then a library closes. A corner store doesn't sell enough booze to the line workers and it closes...

But it forces people to diversify in the long run and they do. I dislike corporations very much, in general.
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Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

Joj Y.:
I dont worry about my own circumstances, but it's easy to see the indirect effects in the local economies. The unemployment rate in Michigan is currently 9.3%, and that will be the highest in the country for three years straight. You lose the tax base and then a library closes. A corner store doesn't sell enough booze to the line workers and it closes...

But it forces people to diversify in the long run and they do. I dislike corporations very much, in general.


You know, I've been reading about the impact that this economic change is having on the mid west, trying to take it all in with a grain of salt, but when I was on that bus to Toronto the other week, we drove past some bigger towns like Buffalo, Syracuse etc... man... what a difference from my last time that I've been to that area! Empty homes everywhere! Boarded up windows, empty factories, just over all a pretty grim picture man. I'm used to NJ and NYC where it's still holding up pretty well, although after Giuliani and Bloomberg a lot of poverty has moved out south to some of the Jersey metro area; crime has risen substantially (even in the city)... pretty crazy how the epicenter is in Manhattan, but the ripples start to show first on the outside perimeter.

It's funny to see how media changes its stands on things, as soon as shit hits the fan. You know things are bad when even news casters are starting to actually present facts.Rafal W. edytował(a) ten post dnia 20.11.08 o godzinie 01:35
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Temat: US auto makers in trouble...

I was in a short line at the grocery store today. An African American woman was standing there and she had been glancing at me so I smiled at her, "how you gettin' by?" I asked her. She said something about the economy, which is popular, and she included "shhhee-it, recesssion? I been in recession all my life." It's a good point. Some people are used to it.
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