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Temat: People were happier under communism.

What would you say to an Irishman who believes people were happier under Communism?

http://www.politics.ie/foreign-affairs/118165-growing-...

http://www.politics.ie/foreign-affairs/118266-black-pe...

http://www.politics.ie/foreign-affairs/118031-fall-ber...warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 11.11.09 o godzinie 22:29
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Mateusz W.

Mateusz W. Exen

Temat: People were happier under communism.

You can tell him my grandma agrees
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Temat: People were happier under communism.

What do you think?
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Mateusz W.

Mateusz W. Exen

Temat: People were happier under communism.

Jokes aside, I belive it's one of the most shameful things that there still are people in Poland who believe communism was a. ok and b. better than democracy.

I guess you cannot really say anything to an Irishman that's going to make him realize that communism is bad.. cuz he's never experienced it. But take away his wealth, take away his freedom, take away his right to decide for himself - well then, you can definitely ask him if he's still enjoying communism..

There's an excellent definition of why communism is bad at the beginning of 'Scarface' when Tony Montana talks to the immigration people - Cuba or Poland, communism is all the same.
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Temat: People were happier under communism.

Mateusz Wodziński:
Jokes aside, I belive it's one of the most shameful things that there still are people in Poland who believe communism was a. ok and b. better than democracy.

How many people would you say believe this?

I'm only asking this because there is someone convinced that people in former communist countries would like a return to the former system.

I said I would ask and find out, (and linked to here).

The more replies the better.warren whitmore edytował(a) ten post dnia 11.11.09 o godzinie 22:48
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Ken Fleming

Ken Fleming native speaker :
graphic designer :
legal alien

Temat: People were happier under communism.

I'm ashamed to admit it, but my experiences of Poland under the communists were extremely interesting -a completely new experience for me. But I was lucky - with a Britiish passport I could return to the West - a privilege denied the people who lived here :((

In my experience of some the older generation of Poles, what they miss is the feelimg of stability - they were told what to do, where to work, where to live, where and when to take their holidays. Nobody was 'officially' homeless or jobless. As a result, in a capaitalist Poland they are completely unable to think for themselves ... therefore, they yearn for a time when the thinking was dione for them

But I would say that what the Warsaw Pact countries endured post World War Two was not 'true' communism as propounded by Marx, but a nasty corruption.
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Temat: People were happier under communism.

Could you tell us some more about these experiences.

It could be interesting.

I never know you'd been around for so long.
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Mateusz W.

Mateusz W. Exen

Temat: People were happier under communism.

I'd say about a quarter of a person per 100 respondents :)

No, but really, the thing is noone (who's lived throught it) in their right mind would say they prefer communism over democracy. The only exception to that is people who no longer recognize/utilize the system we have now - people that for whatever reason are stuck in the past. But there's not one person who lives in today's world that would prefer to go back.

All else aside, an Irishman telling me communism is better than democracy is like me telling the Irishman that Ireland is far better off being owned by England - pretty much the same situation.
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Mateusz W.

Mateusz W. Exen

Temat: People were happier under communism.

Ken Fleming:
I'm ashamed to admit it,
You definitely should be
In my experience of some the older generation of Poles, what they miss is the feelimg of stability - they were told what to do, where to work, where to live, where and when to take their holidays. Nobody was 'officially' homeless or jobless. As a result, in a capaitalist Poland they are completely unable to think for themselves ... therefore, they yearn for a time when the thinking was dione for them

This is by far the stupidest thing I've read in a long while. You may have met a few people here and there that voiced this opinion.

But go ahead and ask those who went to jail for believing the opposite - and believe me, a staggering majority of Poles thought and think the opposite.

It might just be me, but if you are forced to do jail time for not wanting to be told what to do, where to live, work, etc., well - that is not a peachy situation.
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Temat: People were happier under communism.

I think you're exaggerating here a little.

I've met a few old people who voiced such opinions.

But, of course, everyone has nostalgia for when they were young.
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Ken Fleming

Ken Fleming native speaker :
graphic designer :
legal alien

Temat: People were happier under communism.

Mateusz Wodziński:
Ken Fleming:
I'm ashamed to admit it,
You definitely should be
In my experience of some the older generation of Poles, what they miss is the feelimg of stability - they were told what to do, where to work, where to live, where and when to take their holidays. Nobody was 'officially' homeless or jobless. As a result, in a capaitalist Poland they are completely unable to think for themselves ... therefore, they yearn for a time when the thinking was dione for them

This is by far the stupidest thing I've read in a long while. You may have met a few people here and there that voiced this opinion.

But go ahead and ask those who went to jail for believing the opposite - and believe me, a staggering majority of Poles thought and think the opposite.

It might just be me, but if you are forced to do jail time for not wanting to be told what to do, where to live, work, etc., well - that is not a peachy situation.

Mateusz - You misunderstand me. I am in no way condoning what the 'communists' [I prefer to call them Stalinists] did to Poland, nor am I negating the many brave people who went to jail for their opposition. What I was trying to do was to adress the subject of this thread - Why do people miss 'communism'. I have given my answer as to why some people - but by no means all - think this way. I'm not saying they are right, but just passing on my observations. If you're not happy with that, then I'm afraid that's your problem.

PS If you really think that what I wrote is 'is by far the stupidest thing I've read in a long while' then you don't read enough :)Ken Fleming edytował(a) ten post dnia 11.11.09 o godzinie 23:46
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Temat: People were happier under communism.

warren whitmore:
What would you say to an Irishman who believes people were
happier under Communism?

I'd buy him a ticket to Pyongyang and get him the toughest job available there, so that he could check it out himself :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z97rR8xu5sIMagda B. edytował(a) ten post dnia 11.11.09 o godzinie 23:39
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Temat: People were happier under communism.

Ken Fleming:
PS If you really think that what I wrote is 'is by far the stupidest thing I've read in a long while' then you don't read enough :)

I'd endorse the above comment.

Obviously you haven't spent much time on politics.ie (or the 'Londyn' group on GL).
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Mateusz W.

Mateusz W. Exen

Temat: People were happier under communism.

warren whitmore:
Ken Fleming:
PS If you really think that what I wrote is 'is by far the stupidest thing I've read in a long while' then you don't read enough :)

I'd endorse the above comment.

Obviously you haven't spent much time on politics.ie (or the 'Londyn' group on GL).

Well, yeah, I definitely don't go there to seek advice on the issues of communism :) - doesn't seem like a place with authority on the subject.

But ok, I might have been a bit harsh. But that's just cuz, as you said, people might come here to look for the 'Polish' view of things - and what will they see? That the 'old generation' really does prefer communism. And that's obviously not the case. So while it may just be a misinterpreted personal opinion of someone - it can carry a lot more weight when read by a lot of foreigners.
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Sylwia Łubkowska

Sylwia Łubkowska Nauczyciel oraz
tłumacz j.
angielskiego

Temat: People were happier under communism.

It may seem strange, but I really am happy that I grew up under Communism. And I'm glad that I was born exactly when I was born - so that I can still remember what life was like then (though obviously from a limited perspective), I can also relate to things that I couldn't have witnessed but read about in books. I'm thankful for all the quaint kitch it was full of, for the lack of consumptionism and all the ready-made products people buy from the Chinese and then they're surprised they're so crap at DYI (at school we would hand-make clothes for our Barbie dolls because the doll itself was enough of a luxury for our parents to get from Pewex - if we were so lucky). I like my childhood because that's the only one I remember.

But I'm glad that it ended when it ended so that I can have my freedom of speech, travelling and will, I have the opportunity to make my own decisions and act on them, I can also bear the full responsibility of my actions. I really, really wouldn't want Communism to continue.
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Temat: People were happier under communism.

If anyone could add further comments I'd Be grateful.
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Temat: People were happier under communism.

Warren
Without having read the links, I would ask the man why he thought so. And then we could continue.
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Temat: People were happier under communism.

Presumably either because he's deluded or likes defending unpopular causes.

You would have to read the links to find out.
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Paweł G.

Paweł G. Instytut Fizyki
Plazmy i Laserowej
Mikrosyntezy,
Project ...

Temat: People were happier under communism.

Old people simply miss the times when they were young and they wrongly identify it with communism.
Cummunism is totally sick and completely inhuman and I don't refer to the "stalinism" but to all its kinds. The major idea about liquidatind "private property" is asbolutely irrealistic and makes the system economically inefficient. So how can it carry anything good?
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Temat: People were happier under communism.

Ken Fleming:
But I would say that what the Warsaw Pact countries endured post World War Two was not 'true' communism as propounded by Marx, but a nasty corruption.
I think we actually were lucky the 'true' communism' was not implemented. Those who read Marx carefully knew what he wanted would have been a total mess and a humanitarian disaster, a worldwide concentration camp. The closest to reaching communist ideas was probably PolPot.

Besides, in each town we have nowadays small enclaves of communism. Everyone is more or less equal, there is free food, everyone has a job, there is always a warm shelter, (re)education is free.
We call it prison. (I more or less quote Suvorov's words in Last Republic)

There are many prisoners, who served their sentence and cannot live outside anymore. So it is with our grandparents.Jacek Kotowski edytował(a) ten post dnia 13.11.09 o godzinie 13:54
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